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Monday, June 8, 2009

And Another Damn Thing!!!!

It was such a frustrating time for me. I was a lone uber-liberal who called for the impeachment of Clinton. I explained that I believed he should be impeached because he lied; under oath no less. The other liberals rolled their eyes and called me a prude. I tried to explain that it had nothing to do with the act that he lied about, it was the fact the he lied that he needed to be punished for. But they didn't believe me. No amount of explaining would convince them otherwise.

So now I have this issue of Yoyomo becoming an asshole. He has basically been insinuating that I'm a child-like moron and/or a coward to the Israeli mafia and/or that I somehow went back in time to collaborate with Nazis. And I want it to stop. Now. Towards all of us I want it to stop. Now .I am assuming that he will blast me and make further assaults upon my character. He will say that it is because the issue is too much for my small mind or some such thing. He will never believe it is because his behavior is unpleasant and poisonous to The Commons. No amount of explaining will convince him otherwise. It is the Clinton episode all over again.

But in the last post he said it was his last comment on the subject. But then he added additional comments on the topic. Plus, I technically don't know how to ban people or delete comments. So.

Yoyomo, please either comment in a way that doesn't continually call the rest of assholes or do not comment anymore. If you do try the first way, it can no longer be about your pet subject.


Thai said...

Good for you Dink!

And Clinton did lie.

Of course it was a politically motivated trial which he should never have gone through in the first plaec.

But he did cross the line. When it was no longer OK to lie, he did. even if it was truly unfair that he was in the situation he was in.

My heart always went out for Clinto that he was trapped. And yet he did show us what kind of person he really was- which of course was always the intent of conservatives in the first place. Conservatives always correctly knew that in their heart of hearts, Clinton was the kind of person who would lie when it really did matter. At its very core, it was the reason they didn't trust him.

Ah, the complexity of it all!

Best stick with fractals ;-)

Debra said...

I'm not sure that I really have a problem with Clinton lying.... I'm not sure.
But what I ALWAYS had a problem with was knowing that he went back to Arkansas during the first presidential campaign to sign the execution order of Ricky Ray Rector, who had almost succeeded in blowing his brains out, and wanted to save his dessert for after the execution.
I suppose one can say that we don't know what REALLY happened.
But the fact that he really denied clemency in this context was the deciding factor for me. The death penalty really is an issue that separates the men from the boys. It does so when people really start thinking about it, and are not content to blather platitudes that go along party lines.
On the subject of the problem we are having on this blog, I would like to say mea culpa.
I am the kind of person who has always had a problem discussing the topic on hand, particularly when the discussion is totally over my head. I respond the only way that I feel that I can, and sometimes that is off topic.
Maybe all of us, MOST of the time are basically talking PAST each other. Not really WITH the other person.
And the big DISADVANTAGE with the Internet (there are advantages, remember...) is that it is so hard to keep in mind that we are flesh and blood people and not IDEAS.

Thai said...

Good, why don't you make this a death penalty post?

Personally I am for double death (pro abortion, pro death penalty) but I am also a bit of a cheap Scott at heart and where the costs don't make sense, I don't think we should waste society's "filthy luchre" either.

To me the death penalty argument is about nothing but aesthetics.

Like a group of modern artists arguing with Greco-Roman classicists. There is nothing "higher" about the argument one way or another, period.

There are too many "good people" in the world who could use money wasted on these people for much better purposes imho and I certainly do not believe in throwing good money after bad.

Let the fireworks fly! ;-)

yoyomo said...

Just for the record I never used words like "moron","coward" or "small mind". If my memory serves me correctly my exact words were "young at heart" and "boundlessly optimistic"; I hadn't noticed that they had acquired a pejorative connotation.

As for the time traveling collaborator; call me dumb but I'd need a few more hints before I can start trying to figure that one out.

Half guilty on the two more comments; one link included a comment, the other was just a link, I don't really see a comment in there. Might it be unreasonable to assume that the unflattering facts in the links were the cause of most of the upset?

My reply to Cotton made no mention of the topic that dare not speak its name.

Dink said...

@ Yoyomo,

I am taking from your comment that there is a truce and that there is peace in the land. Let all rejoice.

I was once in a vaguely similar position as you, I think. I worked with some soft-core Republicans in 2003. I was rabid about the 2004 election. At some point I realized I could either 1)ignore politics at work (no one else ever brought the subject up) and enjoy my time with these people, or 2) raise hell with no effect except alienating people. It was tough at times to keep my "Irish" down, but in the end it was worth it. Let us never speak of it again ;)

Dink said...

Sci fi fans,
Did you all see Thai's singularity link in the last post? On of the authors named was Vernor Vinge. I read two of his books earlier this year and they were great. The one he won the Hugo for was actually..... I lack words to explain my mind being blown. The singularity caused waves of time to ripple through the universe occasionally. So the good guys in the damaged ships were almost overtaken by the armada of bad guys, but at the last second a time wave came sending most of the fleet into the far past (or far future...,either way though). Stranded in time, who knows what civilizations were around or in what tech phase they were in when they arrived. SWEET!!

SS said...

@ All

I regret but I am quite convinced that Yoyomo is disturbed and won't stop imposing his illness on us until we either learn to delete "all" his comments or he destroys the blog forum. Allowing him to do so further is not helping him nor serving us. Let this be his last warning. Dink thinks he has started a truce, he has not said that but if he can refrain from his past behavior and posts that will be a good start. Like Cotton I encourage him to take his ideas elsewhere to people who have not been exposed, we have all discussed them ad infinitum and have come to our various conclusions.

ref. Clinton, politicians lie all the time.


yoyomo said...

"...have come to our various conclusions."

Well, if you keep attacking me you put me in a position where I feel obliged to defend myself.

I see the difference between you and me as being that I have no problem stating my conclusions explicitly without resorting to euphemisms and I defend my positions with specific examples (that no one has attempted to refute) and I don't find it necessary to accuse anyone of mental illlness in order to undermine their positions or try to silence them.

I much prefer, and am quite able, to attack the inconsistency and double standards of their arguments and that is what seems to be your real problem with me.

yoyomo said...

" was the fact the he lied that he needed to be punished for."

Double standards and hypocrisy; with so many politicians lying about matters of life and death it would have been outrageous to go after the least consequential lie.

If you're going to set a new standard of ethical behavior (which I would support), you have to start with the worst transgressions before working your way down to the small violations.

Debra said...

Well well well this blog is REALLY starting to irritate me.
We ALMOST get things smoothed out a little bit and then SOMEONE has to come and throw fire on the flames again.
Thai, are your comments on the death penalty designed to send ME into orbit the way that y'all apparently perceive Yoyo to be in orbit so the BOYS can all sit down at the saloon, wash down those beers with their fractals and sci fi numbers and be happy with NO CONFLICT ?
Is that the idea ?
On the subject of mental illness, I declare that I am the only competent person on this blog (specialization, remember ? all those years of training have to have at least earned me that much respect, right ?), and I say that the Internet is no place to be handing out diagnoses.
No death penalty posts for the time being.
You know, it's really funny, my Internet forum with the "loonies" is less conflictual that with y'all NORMALS, and I'm SURE that y'all think you're normal...

yoyomo said...

I think Thai also did some training in psychology; anyway, I tried to touch on the money issue back on FarmMkt.

SS said...

@ Thai,

Your posts are sometimes as confusing as your name but are you aware that the death penalty costs more than life in prison and for that reason its use has declined in the recession in some hard pressed states.

@ Debra

After 7 years of analysis one is qualified as a Lacanian analyst at least was in the old days.


SS said...


Please see previous threas re. closed systems. Thanks


Debra said...

Well, I see this is the time to start throwing my credentials around.
I have a DESS in clinical psychology, and spent more than 20 years in psychoanalysis, with people from different bents. And practiced for 10 years.
This stuff always makes me laugh...
If I hinted that because I read medical books I was a doctor Thai would have a hysterical fit. Idem for any other profession/professional.
But because you guys have done A LITTLE reading, and a LITTLE training, that makes YOU qualified.
It's not a sexism issue either.
It's the fact that EVERYBODY thinks that they have psychological expertise.
Maybe that's somewhat true. But it SHOULDN'T be true among educated people. Educated people should know better.
I don't know where you came up with the magic number seven, SS.
I could be REALLY SNARKY and say that seven is an extremely important BIBLICAL number (the number seven goes with the Shabbat, which is HOLY) but I won't...
But seven is not a magic number for Lacanian psychoanalysts.
Unless you start thinking along those lines that Lacan's brother (I think) was a Jesuit priest...
See how complicated this is ?
And anyway, I was just throwing my weight around a little bit so that we would stop saying some unsavory things, and pull our chairs around the table again.

Thai said...

SS, was my response satisfactory?

Yo made my point for me.

Deb, will avoid the subject as I really don't want conflict (honest).

I did assume you were opposed to the death penalty and that you wanted to talk about the subject and were going to tell us why it bothered you. I truly do respect anti death penalty positions, I just don't think I happen to personally share them (if I am understanding you correctly).

But again, I really do not want to argue with you (again, honest). For me the issue is not so much about death as it is about innocence, good laws and decent judges.

If someone is innocent, they should not be in prison- period.

If they are truly not then I don't see that much of a difference between death and a life behind bars... But understand I really do respect others disagree with me on this. I am not saying they are wrong, just my own opinion.

And for those areas of judgment where it is really hard to say what "guilt" is, well that is why we want to pick good judges- as is true in all other things, integrity matters a lot.

Thai said...

And SS re: cost. I have heard this and to the extent it is true, you have my opinion. I would rather the money go to primary education, etc...

For me it is about another kind of life

Dink said...


Duly noted. I think I've made it clear that the goodwill of The Commons will be defended by were-squirrels. We'll hope for the best.

"ref. Clinton, politicians lie all the time"

Yes, but it pisses me off every time.

Debra said...

For the record, I think that a certain amount of arguing is fun and stimulating and I am not against conflict.
But I AM against banning, and deletion of posts. Here, at least, and for the time being. No-one outside of the six of us has penetrated our little haven...

yoyomo said...

"Yes, but it pisses me off every time."

Tell me about it.

The Most Fabulous Objects In The World

  • Hitchhiker's Guide To The Universe trilogy
  • Lord of the Rings trilogy
  • Flight of the Conchords
  • Time Bandits